Following are partial manuscripts from the interviews used in A balancing act, an article written by Megan E. Richard, for the Fall/Winter 2007 edition of In Touch Magazine.

Email interview with Terrance Sawatsky

Describe your pastoral/ministry role during your time at Seminary.
When I began Seminary I was not a pastor. I was working in Nunavut as a social worker (community of Pangnirtung, Baffin Island) and had been feeling God calling me to attend Seminary. At about the same time my father had a heart attack and it made sense to be closer to him for awhile. My wife and daughter and I prayed about it and felt we should move even though we had no jobs waiting. February 2004 we moved to Winnipeg and I began at WCMS as it was the best option for what I needed at the time. God worked things out so I could study and continue contract work in Nunavut. My wife found a job teaching. In June 2006 I began as an Associate Pastor at Elmwood MB, so you could say WCMS was instrumental in getting me to this point of being able to continue studies while also pastoring full-time.

Why did you decide to go to Seminary and what made you want to switch to full-time ministry and not continue in social work?
Moving from social work to full-time ministry is a move I have fought and resisted for a number of years. The call has been clear for me, the response has not been so positive! Two stories that might help illustrate my thoughts might be useful.

Some years ago the church group I was with in Pond Inlet, Nunavut, said they believed God was calling me to work directly with the church. It is a long story, but in a nutshell, but it was a turning point in my life. I had run just about as far as I could go geographically (northern tip of Baffin Island) and ended up being confronted with things I needed to change in my life by a group of believers that felt God had asked them to work with me. God was right! It was the start of a change for me, a change that is still going on, but one that culminated in moving away from social work and into what I call open and clear ministry.

Some years later, after having worked with MCC for nearly 10 years then returning to the Arctic, I was working in Pangnirtung, Nunavut. A young woman came to see me at the social work office because she was suicidal. I tried to work with the idea she was not a bad person, just had made some bad choices – the way we are taught to work with suicidal ideation. She became quite frustrated because she said she knew she was a bad person, and what I was telling her did not help. If I could not accept her self assessment she was going to leave and kill herself. A lot of folks in Pangnirtung did kill themselves so this was no idle chatter on her part. Just as she was going to leave (and I was going to call the RCMP to find her before she did something to herself) she asked why I went to church. It was a small community and she knew about my family. I said I was a Christian and she asked what that was all about. I explained sin and what the death and life of Jesus meant to me, and she stopped and asked me a question which I thought was rather profound. If I said I was a sinner and therefore bad and that was the beginning of a new life for me, why would I not let her call herself a bad person and offer the gift of transformation through the gospel? After that we had a wonderful conversation because she saw hope in transformation, no hope in the good person/bad choice scenario.

These two stories span about 15 years. It illustrates how much I owe to Inuit in pushing me towards my calling and not letting me continue to run. These stories and others like them tell why social work did not end up working for me. I needed to be clear about my faith if folks were going to have hope for life when they came to see me. Being clear about faith in a secular setting is not acceptable – therefore I needed to make a choice.

Why did you decide to attend Seminary while at the same time working in the pastorate?
Actually, I was advised to finish my studies before taking on this job, but I felt God leading me otherwise. Mixing the two is possible, but only if your church is understanding and your family is willing to put up with long hours. A practical result is my papers are late more often than they were before!

What are/were the challenges of doing both together? Ditto to above. I would also add that Seminary can be intimidating for some people. The challenge is to take learning from Seminary and learning from folks in the congregation at the same level – both are necessary.

What are/were the joys/blessings of doing both together?
Being able to apply directly what is learned in seminary is a real joy. Being able to talk with professors (Pierre Gilbert has been wonderful) about everyday aspects of ministry. Being able to bring seminary into the church both to speaking, Sunday School and one-on-one. So many folks do not have the opportunity to go to Seminary and when we can bring Seminary to them; there is a benefit all around.

In your opinion did Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary make the experience more or less difficult than perhaps another Seminary (e.g. online program, larger program)? Explain.
I have no complaints – MBBS has bent over backwards to make things work for me. Having said that, I think Seminaries will need to restructure to take what they do out to churches rather than putting so much emphasis on coming to a central location. I understand the challenges of accreditation and keeping infrastructure going, but I think the future is in the seminary traveling out rather than students traveling in. There is some of that being done now, but it needs to become the core of program rather than an added piece.

The answers you give to the two questions above are very timely as we are trying to address that distance learning question. What do you see as the limitations for people to attend “traditional” seminaries?
I wish I could have attended MBBS in Fresno. My father attended there in 1960-61 and after the year we were going to Brazil as missionaries. He was killed in a car accident the summer of 1961 so we ended up not going to Brazil, and eventually my mother remarried and we went back to Congo. All that to say, I had dreamed of attending MBBS as part of that story. I also feel the chapels, community spirit, support systems, etc of being on site are valuable and important.

How did doing both impact your family life? Answers are welcome in both the positive and negative.
For our family it has been good in that both my wife and daughter want to know what I am studying. Doing both is challenging in that my wife teaches. We both have jobs which require more than an 8 hour day. Our daughter is also interested in many things such as ballet, volleyball, piano, etc. We have decided we only need one car, so we are often driving places together. It is a time for conversation as a family, and we often talk about the course I am currently working at. Both my wife and daughter are interested which makes this a nice joint venture. If they were not interested this would be a different picture.

If you could do things differently would you and how?
I just believe this is how God has led – so I would not change anything.

Did you experience God in new ways during this time of your life? If so how did this impact your ministry and/or time at Seminary?
There have been days where I will pick up some reading and get one paragraph read and then sit back and think and pray and the next thing I know it is the end of the day. God has been very personal and real for me during the past few years, and the challenge I face now is not getting too busy that I cannot have the time to just be with God and listen.

This is a very intriguing answer. Did Seminary provide you with an “excuse” to slow down in order to get assignments done and process what were learning, whereas full-time ministry does not necessarily offer the opportunity? Would you agree with the assumption in that question?
Seminary did give me a solid reason to slow down and find time to think and pray and consider things. It was one of the gifts of seminary – and one of the reasons I would have liked to attend Fresno – to extend that gift. It just was not the way my life was going to work, but the time to reflect is one of the more significant benefits of seminary from my perspective.

Being busy is more about what I expect of myself than what the church expects. My approach to full-time ministry is tied up with being available to people. Church is about being open and ready and willing to listen and talk when folks need it. Otherwise they go elsewhere and developing the habit of making church a place to go for everyday as well as other things is how I envision church. For that reason I like to be busy with people and what is happening in their lives. The implication of that is taking the time for myself to be centered on God when I speak with folks.

Email interview with Dave Ellis

Why did you decide to attend Seminary while at the same time working in the pastorate?
For the past 14 years I was a youth pastor in a large church, which was my first church, that I had ever ministered in. The youth ministry was great, but the environment in the church, was weighing on me. I desired a new challenge, a step of faith, I thought moving into a college position might be that, But God confirmed that the jump of faith was stepping out further, right out of this church. We didn’t have any plans or job opportunities, but God said jump, so we did. I finished in July of 06 and took some holidays. God continuined to direct as I was given a free ticket to a leadership conference. When I was at the summit leadership conference last August, two things happened , God clearly called me to continue on into the next chapter of Ministry for me and my family. At that same conference I spoke with two professors from MBBS they encouraged me to pray about attending the seminary in two weeks, I filled out my application and was accepted on the first day of classes, and Enrolled in the leadership grant program. Still not knowing how God would take care of our financial needs, we pressed on. The next day I received a call from a church in surrey BC called Gracepoint community church. They were going into a transition of a pastor and needed some help, to cover some of those areas. It was a half time position, and would work well with going to seminar full time; I was hired and working by Sept. 15th. I knew it would be all possible if God was in it, and in retrospect I have no doubt of that. I have been blessed to be involved in full time youth ministry for 15 years and I know God is preparing me for that next chapter and being in MBBS is a big part of that.

Describe your pastoral/ministry role during your time at Seminary.
My new role was titled “Pastor of Connections.” My primary role was overseeing and developing small group ministries, giving encouragement to Hospitality teams and integrating new people into the church. I also work with an awesome Alpha team, and as a church with multiple locations; I help out with the set-up teams. Peter Nickel also gave me opportunity to be apart of the staff executive and encouraged me to build relationships with many leaders as I was also studying.

What are/were the challenges of doing both together?
There are many challenges; the biggest was limiting myself to what could be a full time Job as a pastor. The church is so gracious, never being the one to add more or expect more. The challenge was to balance myself. I also had to learn how to be a student again, to speed read, write papers and do research in a whole new techno world. I had to improve on my computer skills and learn how to type. (I was always blessed with great Ministry assistants, not now as a student.) I also speak at various conferences and youth retreats, and most importantly have a family with three kids ages 10-8-5. Fortunately my wife Bev and I are night owls and as she is an Artist we often stay up late at night. Check out her website at <bevellis.com> By being disciplined and staying ahead of my assignments and lots of coffee and support of my family, and obviously God I have finished two semesters and by the fall of 07 will be over half done my Ma.

What are/were the joys/blessings of doing both together?
There are many joys in doing both, but it is not easy, I am sure if I could focus on just one I may be able to do a better job on that one whether it’s pastoring or studying. On the other hand what I have found very helpful is while studying and learning I have the opportunity to look back at 14 years in ministry in which I experienced and participated in many exciting and difficult things in the life of a church. One in which I served one role and my current position in which I serve a much different role. As I learn I can analyze from the past environment and envision the future in a new and different environment. I look at my life as chapters and God is retooling me for the next chapter, which is different then the past, yet he uses all of that experience for the benefit of the future chapter. I love people and I love to serve and minister while I am studying, I think I would miss that if I were only studying. Another joy is realizing that the things I am learning and reading are directly benefiting the church I am working in. As the church goes through a leadership transition, the things I am learning, concepts, truths, a growing understanding of the Gospel and culture, all are directly benefiting the Church and me.

In your opinion did Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary make the experience more or less difficult than perhaps another Seminary (e.g. online program, larger program)? Explain.
I never looked into other seminaries; the MB one offered a great flexible program, funding and great professors. It’s great.

How did doing both impact your family life? Answers are welcome in both the positive and negative. (Please include for information purposes the name of your spouse if marriage and names/ages of children if any.)
We did not move, so at this point are Kids have not been uprooted which has been great. I have a number of Days in which I study from Home, so I get many breaks to spend with my family. We all spend time on Sundays serving together at Gracepoint, and we have meet many great friendly people who have made us feel very welcome in a new community and church.

How did doing both impact your ministry? Answers are welcome in both the positive and negative.
Some times I feel that I can’t throw all my brainpower at my ministry position because I am using a lot of it up on my studies. I can’t begin or finish all the things I would like to in my ministry position. My study deadlines must be met. And with studies it never seems like you can rest, there is always more to read, research or write. Sometimes people’s needs are great and they need to take priority. One good thing is that I am an hour’s commute from my church so that distance helps to separate the two.

If you could do things differently would you and how?
I wouldn’t change anything.

Did you experience God in new ways during this time of your life? If so how did this impact your ministry and/or time at Seminary?
We have stepped out, as God has asked, we are living in faith, you add up half time salary full time school, and yet God is providing, you put being a dad, husband, pastor and student together and it is only possible with God in the equation. I am learning new things about God, his word and His church. We are in an exciting time of history, it requires us to listen to God, humbly serve him and His church. I am learning what it means to be a Christ follower, seems to me there is much more for me to learn.

Email and in-person interview with Jeff Harrington

Describe your pastoral/ministry role during your time at Seminary.
I was the Senior Pastor of a church plant which was 41/2 years old and had just moved into some existing buildings the church at just purchased.

Interview paraphrase: Doing ministry while attending seminary provides a “lab” for direct application. It helps in deciding what things to pay attention to (things that will work in the particular ministry) and what not to focus on.

Why did you decide to attend Seminary while at the same time working in the pastorate?
I had been a youth pastor and then a church planter for about 11 years when this opportunity became available. I had no formal theological training up until this time. Additionally, I believe seminary offers the best learning environment when we are in an active ministry….

What are/were the challenges of doing both together?
Quite simply, deciding how much effort and time could be given to maximize learning and practical application and still be honoring the more important issues of being a husband and father.

Interview paraphrase: 100% was given to family, 80% to seminary and 80% to ministry. Homework was done outside of designated family time and was usually done at the same time my kids did their homework. Staff at church helped make going to seminary possible. I have always been a good time manager, even before seminary.

What are/were the joys/blessings of doing both together?
Because I was/am involved in a church which emphasizes holistic ministry I was able to test, apply, and eliminate different teachings. Additionally, I was able to help younger students, without a lot of ministry experience, see how the teachings were not theoretical “pie in the sky” or ivory tower idealism, but practical and applicable to ministry.

In your opinion did Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary make the experience more or less difficult than perhaps another Seminary (e.g. online program, larger program)? Explain.
I’m not sure “difficult” is the right word. I think “beneficial” would be more appropriate. And I think the Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary experience was much more beneficial than another seminary might have been. I deeply appreciated the ability to interact with the instructors in all of my courses. The accessibility of the instructors and the administration was incredible. I also experienced some great relationships with other students that continue to this day. Obviously this doesn’t happen with online programs and I’m not sure how accessible instructors and administration are in the larger seminaries.

How did doing both impact your family life? Answers are welcome in both the positive and negative.
The potential for a negative impact could be very high for someone working full-time and attending seminary full-time as well. If someone doesn’t have a strong staff that would increase the potential negative impact on family. I am blessed to have a great ministry team. This allowed me to give a strong focus to my courses. But I made a conscious decision to not “excel” in my course work. I would do a lot of my work with my four kids as they did their homework. It really was a good time and helped my children see the value of homework. My experience was very positive in regard to the impact seminary had on our family life.

Interview paraphrase: Would not have wanted seminary before as I was a pioneer church planter and needed to be hands on while attending seminary.

How did doing both impact your ministry? Answers are welcome in both the positive and negative.
As a whole this did not have negative impact, but there were some struggles. On the positive side it helped move my leadership from an autocratic style to developing a team approach. This needed to happen at that point in our church’s growth, but I’m not sure it would have happened with the circumstances helping it along. The negative side was that some people on staff thought I might have other interests I was heading toward. But this created the opportunity to better communication and helped solidify the vision of the church as we talked about the team approach to leadership of the church.

If you could do things differently would you and how?
I’m not sure I would do too much differently. I crammed my two year program into three years which helped me not to be overloaded in my senior pastor role. I started slow with only two classes my first semester so I could get acclimated to doing school work again. And I worked it out that my last semester was pretty light.

Did you experience God in new ways during this time of your life? If so how did this impact your ministry and/or time at Seminary?
There were at least two significant experiences God granted me during my time at MBBS and both have been significant in the ministry I am called to serve. First, the holistic vision we feel God has granted Central Community Church was not just validated, but the seminary work helped to expand my mind toward thinking bigger and broader in applying this vision. Second, and probably of greater importance, I learned the utter importance of biblical relationships and community. It’s one thing to intellectually understand the importance of relationships and community. It’s another thing to understand we have a deep, God given and driven need to be in relationship and community. The theological teachings I received from MBBS really confronted me and opened the door to some personal healing in this area which has continued since my graduation.

Interview question: How has Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary been a support to you since graduation?
Writing in seminary helped prepare me for my doctoral program with Ray Bakke on Complex Contexts. Jim Westgate was a mentor to me going into seminary and has continued to be one after seminary. Jim Holm also performed a mentoring role during my studies that continues. Being on-site really helped to make this possible.